Parents outside their native habitat
around noon
Atena: How are you??
andrea: not too bad. just finished lunch. henry’s napping
Atena: Awesome. Whatcha up to today?
andrea: i got a little motivation and wrote up some questions for the working parent survey for keeley
Atena: Rock n’ roll…
I gotta get my ass in gear – so much to do…
andrea: i was thinking of going to Target to get a few things later
yeah, i bet
Atena: I’ve been doing some “PR” for Double Agents….
andrea: oh. is it getting more traffic?
Atena: Posting on various sites that might draw more of an audience…
andrea: maybe we should get in gear and put up another post. 
Atena: Yeah – you can check the traffic on the dashboard…
I posted something this weekend…
but we should post another chat session soon, too.
andrea: right
maybe something after Concentric. Do they ever address parenting?
I don’t remember young adult conferences ever coming close to noticing that aspect of young adulthood
Atena: I have no idea…
but if they don’t
they will by the time I leave there.
andrea: heh
Atena: Represent!
andrea: yeah, i mean it’s still pretty common for people to have kids before they turn 35
Atena: Yeah -
andrea: I remember one conference I went to a gal brought her baby, which was cool
Atena: Anything after is considered “high risk.”
andrea: yeah, exactly
yet it’s the one thing no one ever talks about
Atena: Yeah, Natalie and I will be representing for the parents.
When I registered…
the woman said there were no other kids registered so far…
But then, I don’t know if they count babies.
andrea: right
on the one hand, i can see how someone attending would want to be able to focus on themselves for a change
Atena: Yeah.
andrea: but on the other hand, it’s kind of this dink/singles bar atmosphere
Atena: Hah.
Yeah – you know I’m thinking…
I’ve been thinking about the whole nursing in public thing as a radical action…
creating opportunities for people to see nursing as a normal, everyday thing…
andrea: *nod*
Atena: But now I’m realizing that just going out to non-child-oriented events is seeming pretty radical.
andrea: yeah!
Atena: Going with your child, that is.
andrea: yeah.
Atena: I don’t know if you read my post from this weekend…
it’s about ghetto-ifying parents.
andrea: like Mark and I wouldn’t really think of going to a YA event because it would be so difficult to accomodate Henry
Atena: Yeah? Not ever?
andrea: and it’s not fair that the one who “plays parent” doesn’t participate
Atena: What about switching off?
andrea: i can’t imagine taking him, in thinking of past conferences i’ve been to
Atena: You make a good point -
Toddlers are a handful, and you can’t always take them everywhere…
andrea: BUT conferences should totally make some accomodation
Atena: RIGHT – ’cause no space will ever become accommodating if we don’t try to carve out a space for ourselves.
andrea: like budget in some nursery care or something
exactly
Atena: They do have childcare at ConCentric! That’s pretty cool.
andrea: oh that’s good
Atena: They were going to cover the cost in my scholarship.
andrea: nice
have you and ian been to any 2U young adult events?
Atena: I went to one…
andrea: with or without stella?
Atena: Ian had stayed at home with Stella.
That’s generally why we don’t go…
andrea: same here
Atena: Because they’re just not designed for parents.
andrea: Quinn asked us about what could be done to be more inviting for parents
i don’t know if any changes were made, though
Atena: It’s good that she asked.
andrea: exactly
Atena: But they won’t have incentive to make changes…
if we’re never showing up.
andrea: yeah
Atena: We should plan to go together sometime.
andrea: we should. although i haven’t seen many events that pique my interest
usually they revolve around purchasing meals, it seems
Atena: I have no idea what they’re doing… you’re right about meals though.
We should bring that up.
Maybe offer to host something sometime…
Bring it onto our turf, in our space.
andrea: i’d been thinking about the whole YA thing, thinking I’d just kinda dumbly look around until, woops! I’m 35!
Atena: Yeah…
I guess the young adult stuff got separated from the parent stuff.
Like being a parent automatically adds ten years.
andrea: is it an issue i want to attempt? will parents in YA groups ever be a partnership?
Atena: I don’t know…
Why wouldn’t they?
andrea: yeah. i think about YA stuff and think that I must be too old for them. i’d be too busy watching Henry do something silly than to contribute any meaningful discussion
Atena: (I just pulled a penny out of Stella’s mouth.)
andrea: there are a lot of college types that have completely different needs and worldviews
(oh lord.)
Atena: Anyway, I don’t think that we should be excluding ourselves from this group…
andrea: and then the young grads, headed to more graduate work or headed to be young professionals
Atena: on account of our children.
We have as much right to participate as they do.
andrea: i just feel too old and distracted to get into what they’re doing
Atena: Well, maybe they should get into what we’re doing.
andrea: is there anything after YA? or do you just wade out into great expanse toward the ‘elder’ horizon?
Atena: I think you just “wade out.”
andrea: hmm
Atena: I think the young adult group would benefit from the parent perspective…
Because many of them will be parents one day…
And many of them have parents in their lives.
andrea: to play devil’s advocate, in what way can they benefit other than the whole cautionary angle, “a duck maybe somebody’s mother” schtick?
Atena: I suppose in the way that anyone benefits from exposure to and interaction with other groups: a widened perspective…
andrea: *nod*
Atena: We can help them learn about parents, learn that we don’t have a disease that makes talking to us impossible…
andrea: (woah.. i’m feeling dizzy all the of sudden)
Atena: you okay?
andrea: that was so weird
Atena: is it over?
andrea: i’m seated, so it didn’t harm me, but i felt my head spinning as though i had been dervishing around. like i degaussed my brain.
and apparently i transpose words when i typed
yeah. maybe i should lay off the Mike ‘n’ Ikes
Atena: hee hee.
So, I guess what I’m trying to say…
andrea: i’m going to look at the YA mailing list archives real quick to see what the events have been recently
Atena: Cool.
I guess we also benefit…
because we get to have an experience of life that is not so child-focused…
That gets us out of our usual box for a while, and reminds us that there are other things in life, and other ways of living.
We can get so isolated – by ourselves, but also with each other.
andrea: True
i don’t see any events having happened other than the soulful potluck and ya brunch. weird.
Atena: Why’s it weird?
andrea: because i feel like i’ve seen other messages posted related to YA
maybe it’s a different mailing list than the one i’m looking at
Atena: Maybe.
Or maybe it’s out of date?
andrea: the events postings are current
i think they may have created a different group when Mark relinquished leadership
Atena: What group are you looking at?
andrea: there we go
yeah, i was at the wrong one. I was looking at 2u_young_adults
Atena: Aha.
Hey, andrea -
I’m gonna change Stella, but then I’ll be back, cool?
andrea: k
Ten minutes later
Atena: Okay – where were we?
andrea: i looked through the past posts and didn’t see too many events that i’d be up for attending. i didn’t see too many events, period. it might be nice to go to a circle worship, provided they had some childcare going on
i didn’t see any future planned events, although it is summer
Atena: Yeah – I think childcare would be possible on a Sunday.
andrea: although that would make for a LOT of nursery time if Henry was there through church and then a second service
Atena: Is there something wrong with a lot of nursery time?
andrea: i dunno. would they be willing to feed him lunch?
the nursery attendents, that is
Atena: They have for other kids, as far as I know.
andrea: okay.
Atena: I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t feed a hungry child.
andrea: *shrug*
Atena: Especially since hungry children are often angry children.
andrea: well, doling out snacks are one thing
but spoons and bowls full of something are different
henry’s not a sandwich guy yet
Atena: I guess you’d have to ask them what they’re willing to do.
And decide how much you want to participate in whatever YA thing is happening.
andrea: for me it just comes back to, am I really that interested to make the effort?
i’m too much of a slacker
Atena: You are not a slacker!
As much work as you do to keep Henry happy and entertained…
andrea: mark and i were just talking about whether we’re raising henry to be a slacker. he was sitting on the couch yelling for me while i was in here typing. wouldn’t get up to get me, just kept yelling
Atena: you can hardly claim to be a slacker.
andrea: oh, i’m lazier than i appear, i think
Atena: What you’re referring to is not being at his beck and call every minute.
Which is actually a good thing.
andrea: my favorite way to play with henry is to roughhouse on the bed because it means i’m laying down
Atena: Heh heh.
andrea: just looked through your recent post to doubleagents
did you feel similarly ignored at the party on Saturday?
Atena: Not so much…
andrea: it seemed more of a kid-friendly crowd
Atena: Yeah -
and there were a lot more people.
Generally a different demographic – ministry students, 2U church members…
andrea: although i never feel like i have anything relavent to talk and secretly hope someone will ask me something about Henry
Atena: The group on Friday were mostly high school teachers…
andrea: ohh
Atena: They had a lot of “Teacher by day, hipster by night” going on…
(another penny out of the mouth – I have to clean under the carpet.)
andrea: yeah, i can understand that scene
(start calling her Coinstar)
Atena: HA!
Anyway, I’ve been to lots of parties where it was totally cool to have Stella, and people were really accepting.
andrea: that’s good
Atena: Yeah – I always really appreciate it.
andrea: Stella’s still at an age where people don’t necessarily fear her
Atena: Very true.
andrea: like I totally wanted to go to a friend of mine’s birthday BBQ
and I would have a year ago
but I think about my friend’s house and all the buttons and CDs and shiny things and breakable/mouthable things and how there would be no way i could actually wear him the whole time
and i had to bow out
Atena: Yeah, I can definitely see that.
andrea: i felt defeated somehow
Atena: It’s harder to get around with toddlers, because the world is so NOT set up for them.
andrea: exactly
Atena: And it blows for the parents.
Because the last thing anyone needs is to only be able to hang out with a toddler.
Though they are very sweet.
andrea: it’s sad because it’s a situation where your child is the reason you can’t go somewhere and not because they’re sick or aren’t friends with the person, but because of their nature at the age they’re at
they’re holding you back in some way just by their existence
Atena: yeah…
andrea: that’s so awful to think about your own kid
Atena: But don’t you think that sometimes toddler parents hold back themselves…
andrea: i’m sure
it’s hard to tell how tolerant nonparents are, though
Atena: and sometimes forget to let their child try to overcome some of the “terror” that’s expected of them?
Yeah.
andrea: like i always feel like i have to ride herd over Henry no matter whose house I’m at
when we were in Iowa, we visited some relatives.
Atena: I think people are by and large less tolerant of children because they don’t have much experience with them.
andrea: they lived on the outskirts of Algona in a really big, really nice house. they had a huge back yard where Henry was able to play, sandbox, the works. But he got tired of that and hot and we went into the house where I just kinda had to let him roam and i was SO scared he’d fuck something up
and my relatives impressed upon me that there was absolutely nothing he could mess up in their space and to relax
Atena: Were you able to relax and let him play?
andrea: and I remember feeling so relieved and also feeling like this was the first time i’d felt that relieved, like someone anticipated my anxiety and truthfully told me that all was cool
Atena: That’s great.
andrea: i know
Atena: I think because of lack of exposure to kids…
andrea: but i’d never know whether my other friends would say “yeah, it’s cool that he’s pulling our DVD collection off the shelves” and mean it
Atena: people fail to think about what it really means to have a kid in their home.
And they underestimate the parents’ capacity to control the child’s every move.
andrea: but it’s really exhausting to control your child’s every move
Atena: Well, yeah, and you shouldn’t have to…
There should be some space where you can let them do their thing.
andrea: so i end up not taking henry to places that i don’t already have experience with
i know. that’s a hard one in the city, unfortunately
Atena: That’s my point…
There has to be a process of integration…
This is where we have to be revolutionaries again -
by letting people know that children do exist in the world, and that we need space for them to be themselves.
andrea: yeah
Atena: I’m really enjoying this discussion -
andrea: i kinda want to live in Wicker Park for just that reason
Atena: but Stella’s losing it.
andrea: okay
Atena: I gotta sign off, but I’ll call you soon.
andrea: kay
Atena: Later!
andrea: bye!
treecup said,
August 19, 2006 at 3:47 pm
We’re lucky I guess — our friends without kids really seem to “get” it, even to the point of letting Jezebel grab onto their kitty’s leg for dear life and not let go. Heck, even their kitty seems to “get” it more than our own kitty, who would never stand for such a thing.